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can it be proven?

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can it be proven?

Post by queen of hearts on Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:37 pm

is there any actual proof that there is a god?a heaven and hell?
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Jyo on Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:01 pm

There is no actual proof...anyone who says otherwise is wrong :p
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by queen of hearts on Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:03 pm

i say that but there are people willing to argue otherwise
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Jyo on Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:10 pm

Well, I can't imagine there being proof of god existing, "proof" meaning that it is 100% known.
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by BN on Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:14 pm

Maybe the debate topic can be instead "Do you believe there is a God?".

For me, I believe there is one, since I find it difficult that we weren't created on Earth from a higher power of life and that we were possibly created through a gigantic explosion (the Big Bang Theory) But...I do see some rationality in the theory of Evolution...
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Main on Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:19 pm

Those are pretty much my beliefs as well Bad N.
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Natz on Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:19 pm

It's based on what you believe, If you are christian, you will believe it

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Re: can it be proven?

Post by queen of hearts on Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:21 pm

i dont believe
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Jyo on Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:24 pm

My point is that no human on this earth knows 100% that there is a god. Don;t get me wrong, as I do believe in god :p
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Noble on Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:57 pm

Agreed.
To many people, God may just be a figure.
People have different beliefs, which means there will be many sides of what they think.
Get me ?

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Re: can it be proven?

Post by kareljanis on Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:18 pm

i personally dont believe, but we will probably never know
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Radar30 on Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:58 pm

"Proof" hasn't existed since Jesus lived. Miracles are our proof. Jesus, for example, would walk on water, and everyone would belive. Nowadays, it's different. Our miracles come in different ways. A person surviving a head on collision or a pilot landing a plane on water that was on it's way down to crash (both of which has happened), these things are our miracles today. These things are our proof. Thus, I believe.

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Re: can it be proven?

Post by kareljanis on Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:52 pm

how do we know jesus walked on water?
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by CAPS LOCK on Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:05 pm

i believe that there has to be 'something' super-natural out there, i believe in God, but not in the traditional christian way. i don't think God is a true 'being,' more like a spirit, a feeling, but i do believe something like it exists.
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Son of Gaia on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:02 am

LOL Christians I think live in a fantasy world.

My proof of the divine would be existence and nature itself. Though these things are seen everyday they're seldom appreciated for what they are, miracles one could say. Impossibilities made possible I would say.
And what do I mean by nature? Life, all life, all life forms, elements, rocks, the sky, colours, feelings and emotions you get through the beauty of nature, the fact we exist to appreciate such things.

Jesus walked on water? Wow. The fact water exists for a holy icon to walk on is the real miracle one could say...

But, because of the normality of these things, they're never used as evidence of the divine.

Most people who don't care for religion look at religion as either Christianity or what they hear on the news about Islam. This blinds most people as there are a significant amount of religions in the world that are a whole load more believable than Christianity.
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Radar30 on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:16 am

"Most people who don't care for religion look at religion as either Christianity or what they hear on the news about Islam. This blinds most people as there are a significant amount of religions in the world that are a whole load more believable than Christianity."

Like what? Give me some examples of "believable" religions..

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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Johnywilko on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:21 am

I agree with BN in his first post, could we really be created by 'a Big Bang?'
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Son of Gaia on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:38 am

Radar30 wrote:"Most people who don't care for religion look at religion as either Christianity or what they hear on the news about Islam. This blinds most people as there are a significant amount of religions in the world that are a whole load more believable than Christianity."

Like what? Give me some examples of "believable" religions..

Paganism - the complete worship of nature, the fact that all life is equal - not just human life

Animism - the complete and utter respect of all life and everything else on the planet

Spirituality - searching yourself for answers and for the path you choose in life

Hinduism and krsna Consciousness - again that all life is equal, teaches you that we are spirits in a body and our ultimate goal is to develop that spirit and learn to love god

Satanism - that we should not be made to feel guilty by Christians for acting out our nature - supposedly given to us by god himself

All of these religions above are governed by the principle hurt not any forms of life, no matter what the life form is

Although Satanism promotes only hurt those who hurt you - a big difference.

Basically, the more I scratch the surface of religion, the more I like what I find.

I come from a Christian family, but I have never been Christian, I hardly went to church, and I 'sinned.'

Then, after lots of research i found out that my beliefs (being a vegetarian) fit more neatly in the religions above, though I'd never have even considered becoming a Satanist.

Spiritual Pagan Animist is for me ...

And I intend to become more one with nature than I am now...
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Radar30 on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:49 am

Spirituality isn't it's own religion, you can have spirituality and be any one of a number of religions...

and I don't believe all life is equal for these reasons...

1. Animals do not have souls, humans do.
2. Jesus came in human form, seems like that should be a bit significant.
3. God created the animals for us (humans). (reference: Genesis)

I do love animals, but I wouldn't choose a bug's life over a humans... That being said, the thing you like about each of those religions isn't me...

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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Son of Gaia on Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:08 am

Okay, for starters, animals have never been capable of evil. they have never been greedy, selfish, ignorant, arrogant. They never stray from their nature. they don't strive to fuck other life over. they aren't responsible for dwindling rainforests. they are not responsible for acts of terror. they are not responsible for massive wars and bloodshed. they do not crave power. they do not try to force others out of their homes. They do not belittle less fortunate members of their own species.
Animals are peaceful, they try (no thanks to mankind) to keep themselves to themselves. the animals humans eat are by default not meat eaters themselves. Animals are more caring to their own families. In fact,

so, take into account everything humans are capable of and everything an animal is capable of, who are the soulful ones?

i'm sorry, I respect your belief and am always interested in learning more about it, but Satanism has a kinder outlook on other forms of life and the opposite sex than Christianity does. And no, i do not fail to see the irony of that...

You say you love animals, so you must have reached some kind of oneness with them during your life time, probably a dog or a cat or something domestic. Youre telling me theres absolutely no room for the possibility that other forms of life simply exist like we do, for reasons other than to serve man?

Animals, and other forms of life, were around far longer than humans, a lot of species died out long before man tainted this planet. So, I do not believe in any sense that animals were put here for us.
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Radar30 on Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:01 pm

How is animals killing other animals for food different than us killing animals for food, if in fact, we are all supposed to be "equal." The reason animals have not done the things you stated is because humans were given that responsibility. granted, we have made mistakes, but it is our responsibility to not mistakes, or fix the ones we have made. And when you hear a story about a mountain lion or something attacking a human, you don't call that "fucking another life over."

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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Son of Gaia on Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:14 pm

First of animals eating other animals is actual survival.

humans were given that responsibility

Right, humans were also 'given' the power of thought, compassion, and opposable thumbs so humans are more than capable of surviving without meat. I, and many others have done so for a long time.

Now, you say animals were here to serve us? you just referred to humans as animals when you use their need for survival to justify your indulgence in animal products. And believe me, as a Christian you should be very against indulgence of any kind. yet that is what it is for humans nowadays, simple, yet very sinful, indulgence.

Now, as for this mountain gorilla, i will try to explain it as to relate to the very nature of its species.

The thing I believe about gorillas is they can be strong and aggressive, its in their nature to be, and they're good at what they do. I don't associate that with evil at all. I think a gorilla will be a gorilla, its got the capability to be strong and aggressive in the way it provides and protects its own family. Its nature's design...

And also, animals as stated in the bible were put here for man...

What use to man is the poisonous dart frog? What use to man is a rhinoceros or a giraffe? What use to man were Dinosaurs? What use to man is an Albino Snake? What use to man is the very Mountain gorilla that just committed a great sin by attacking the very humans that were probably there trying to catch the it in the first place? What use to man is the gecko?

There are millions of different species of life on the planet. Only a fraction of them are actually useful to mankind... Why did God make so many?
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Radar30 on Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:57 pm

Animals killing other animals isn't always pure survival, how about when male lions challenge another male for their pack? That isn't survival. That is part of their world, but not survival. The lions could survive without killing off the other lion.

Next, you wrote, "The thing I believe about gorillas is they can be strong and aggressive, its in their nature to be, and they're good at what they do. I don't associate that with evil at all. I think a gorilla will be a gorilla, its got the capability to be strong and aggressive in the way it provides and protects its own family. Its nature's design..."---- there are a few things wrong with this.. 1. I said mountain lion, not gorilla. 2. If you say a gorilla will be a gorilla, that is a horrible argument, people will be people. It's "nature's design." Humans are a part of nature as well..

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Re: can it be proven?

Post by JakeSteel on Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:33 pm

Son of Gaia wrote:they have never been greedy, selfish .

I have to disagree here, I have witnessed multiple times how an animal can be selfish or greedy.

Son of Gaia wrote: they don't strive to fuck other life over. .

What?

Son of Gaia wrote:
they do not try to force others out of their homes. .

Though unintentially (sp?), yes, they have been known to.
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Re: can it be proven?

Post by Girl_Anachronism on Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:31 pm

Personally, if there was 'A' god, then surely the whole world would be in agreement, and their would be only 'one' religion that would be considered fact? With so many conflicting arguments and views on this matter, I find it hard to believe in 'A' god. But that doesn't mean I don't believe in God, I believe god is whatever we hold true, peace, equality, everything that is considered 'good'.
Personally My God, is true, powerful, and willing to understand and appreciate everyone and everything. He isn't just a god from a story book, he's what we are, who we are, and where we should be going.
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Re: can it be proven?

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